I am a mom of very young kids. I don't have to worry about having the birds and the bees talk with anyone for hopefully many years! But there has been much publicized about youth and sex and new technology that is making my head spin! Articles and news blurbs about "sexting", parents finding naked pictures of their kids on Google, oral sex parties. Hello Sodom, meet Gomorrah!
During the entire discussion the concept of self-control was not even mentioned. How can it be healthy to teach a young pre-teen girl who's hormones are out of whack, who's frontal lobe or 'rational decision making center' isn't fully developed, to become sexual beings by "owning their self-pleasure"? Why on earth will this help prevent promiscuity with boys? There is a difference between having open and informative dialogue with your kids and encouraging sexual behavior. I find it frightening that self-control has completely been brushed under the rug when discussing something so life-altering as sex. The wide acceptance of teen sex has become a dangerous limbo game, where the bar is quickly lowered as our kids pass underneath it. "How low can we go?"
19 comments:
What can we expect from people who have the view that the feelings and urges their bodies are giving them are natural.
One thing I don't understand about the gay rights people is: why their feelings urging them to same sex attraction are ok and yet other feelings, that they can't control aren't?
If your uncontrollable feelings of attraction are ok, doesn't that same logic say that a pedofiles uncontrollable feelings of attraction ok? With that same logic aren't you close minded and evil for not letting them have what comes natural to them? Aren't you bigotted?
How can they ignore self control in everything except what their societal values say is wrong and expect and say it is bad for us to make the same call for the same reason but at a different point? Am I missing something in my bigotted, narrow minded view?
Sorry to get off on a tangent.
Um, yes John, apparently you are missing something in your view. Political/religious views aside, you can NOT compare homosexuals to pedophiles! No matter what your view of homosexuality is! You are comparing two consenting adults to an adult sexually preying on and violating an innocent and helpless child. That is a disgusting comparison. Think about it.
Giving some thought to what you say before you say it may be a good starting point for you, if you don't think you should be considered narrow-minded or bigoted.
I saw the topic on Oprah and skipped it on purpose. Since you actually saw the show, I think you should write her and ask her to give another viewpoint, one that teaches people to use their bodies in a respectful manner, one that promotes closeness and bonds with a HUSBAND and WIFE! Not one that acts on impulses. To so many poeple, Oprah shows one viewpoint and it becomes the only logical viewpoint, when in reality it is so corrupt.
John, I agree with you, you could justify any impulse. While the comparison is slightly flawed because as Gross Clan pointed out, one is between consenting adults and the other preys on the innocence of children, I understand your point. Just like so many issues out there, where do we draw the line? Also, I think that your passion is important, if we aren't passionate about standing up for what is right, then evil is going to continue to railroad society.
Okbushmans, YOU ARE NOT ALONE! This is very very disturbing.
I go into the next part because I don't know how to explain everything I thought otherwise. If you want just skip to the last paragraph for my point.
Why is my view of life and choosing a moral line according to my beliefs bigotry when their choosing the moral line according to their beliefs that it is ok not bigotry? Why do they get to choose that? I feel just as strongly that the act is wrong as they feel it is right.
This is something that I try not to think about to much as I have not been able to reconcile the whole thing. I would never hurt anyone intentionally. I don't like even being mean, hating, making fun spitefully, or lying to people. I would treat anyone no matter what their beliefs the way I want to try be treated - I try not to make fun or deride anyone for their beliefs. They are people and deserve happiness. I want happiness and to have my desires fullfilled.
On the other hand what I have found in life through my problems, and through religious beliefs has brought me to the point that marriage to someone of the same sex, and same sex relations- to be blunt- goes against the good laws of the universe. How do I reconcile these?
The point though is that this conservative enemy(who listens to talk radio) is bugged by the seemingly holier than thou(sp?) attitude of the left. To my view they are telling me that I can't do something that the act is bad, but it is ok for them to do that act.
I wanted to comment on the original post -- as a mother I feel the same as you. I don't think you're alone. I think that is a totally whack idea and I'm not sure how it would benefit a teenage girl, or our society, in any worthwhile way. I agree that it is wise to be educated and informed, but what that doctor is suggesting is something different entirely.
I am not sure how or why those commenting transformed this into a discussion about homosexuality and gay rights. While I do not wish to debate the morality of that topic, I am deeply disturbed that those commenting do not see the glaring difference between homosexuality and robbing a child of his innocence, violating a person in the most heinous way possible. I can't even fathom that any decent human could justify putting the two close to the same category. Am I alone here? PLEASE tell me I am not. Surely hatred for those adults who choose to act differently in the privacy of their own bedrooms doesn't cloud your judgment so extremely that you forget to protect the most innocent in our society.
Danette and John, you are the same person, right? Somehow this discussion is turning to homosexual behavior....that's alright because I have some thoughts myself.
I agree with you. Why should you be the biggot because you don't agree with their lifestyle? Why aren't they the biggot against you and your beliefs? There is a terrible touble standard.
I just had a baby that was in the NICU for 3 weeks. While I was in there, there was a same-sex couple who had also just had a baby, twins actually. Here was my take, yes, they were nice to talk to (I have a cousin who is gay and I have worked with many gay people and they have become my friends--hate the sin love the sinner, right?). Yes, they probably love each other. Yes, they will probably love their children. Yes, there are so many other children out there who are born in what some may say are worse circumstances, so they justify the fact that their home will at least be loving. BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, it still isn't right and it isn't normal and it isn't natural and they had to get that sperm from somewhere to make those babies, and those babies are going to probably have some issues because their home is imbalanced and doesn't have the proper influence of a man and a woman. So, it's not right and it is just perpetuating the problem of the breakdown of the family. The breakdown of the family results in a larger breakdown in our society. That is why we are in the mess we are in. Why is this opinion and honest belief considered bigoted? Because that is what society has done, they have made good evil and evil good. That is why Oprah brings on experts that teach children that it's alright to masturbate, that is why we have had a larger number of babies born in recent years, than during the baby boom. And over 40% of those babies were born to single women. People are not being taught to "bridle their passions".
And to Gross Clan, we can talk about homosexuality and we can also talk about protecting the innocent. The act of destroying a child's innocence is foul and disgusting! There is no doubt that these people should be castrated. Are any of you familiar with Alfred Kinsey? He studied sexual nature. While his institute denies this, there were meticulous notes found by him on their sexual experiments with children. He wanted to understand the sexual nature of children. He was a sick pervert who is not seen as that at all. He is seen as a genius in the area of sexual behavior. My point, homosexuality has crept into our society and is now seen by most as a very normal thing. I asked earlier, where do we draw the line? At what point is sexual behavior/experiments or anything of the like, going to also become normal?
One obvious line is ADULT vs. CHILD. Another? CONSENT vs. FORCED.
FYI: Homosexuality hasn't crept into our society, it has ALWAYS existed (and been acted upon). Whether or not you agree with it doesn't change this fact. (I am not stating this as a justification, just information.)
You're right, homosexuality has always been there, but has not been so "in your face" as it is now. The bigotry toward people who think it is wrong, the fight for same-sex marriage, all the research and studies to "prove" that it is natural and normal. All of this is part of a major movement that has never gone on before (that I know of). So, again, we can say that things that were once seen as abnormal are now being seen as normal. Concent vs. Forced will probably never be "normal" but I would not be surprised if "Adult vs. Child" is something that could potentially become "normal" one day.
Going back to the original post, the point is, that the things that are being talked about and are seen as "natural" and we should act upon them are things that we would have NEVER said were ok several years ago. There is a major shift between what was once wrong and what is now considered as right.
With the original topic: I am glad that I am smart enough not to take moral advice on how to talk to my children from somebody who has no morals.
On the other topic of homosexuality: In the January 1990 issue of the Homosexuality Journal, the topic for the magazine was how pedophiles were actually GOOD for children and we should welcome them into our homes as a loving guest who is helping our young boys become men. They had several "experts" discussing how these men were excellent role models for these boys and that not all pedophilia is bad. I see something VERY wrong with ANY group of people who would agree with this and encourage this in their magazine. (As a result of this rediculous nonsense, the American Pshycological Associtaion posted some of these so-called findings in their journal in 1999, and trial lawyers began using this information to defend their clients accused of child molestation. Absolutely disgusting, in my opionon- I really wish the Homosexual Journal never printed such crap, and the fact that they believe such things is beyond reason, and our children should NEVER be entrusted to people who believe that!)
When I left my second comment I didn't realize that my wife was signed in, sorry about that.
I do agree with the author that self control should be very important. Teaching it and expecting it will help with fixing more than one thing(like obesity, instant gratification). I am glad to think about other things but like making my choice.
About the homosexuality topic: I don't know why that thought came up when talking about article. Maybe I heard what was on the Oprah, assumed it was someone in the left and used homosexuality and pedophilia as the example.
When you let people choose their own morality according to what they feel and their beliefs anything can happen. My biggest fear is that that the mindset that allows that to happen can allow more to happen because the belief in letting your feelings decide and then drawing a line seem to be two different, opposed beliefs.
Some examples that I have heard about when civilizations didn't have the same beliefs I do are: I heard an indian descendant once talking about how their ancestors gave children a grown up partner to guide their sexual growth, and adult partner and it was fine to them. Also one of the biggest problems when we went into afganistan was reported to be the problem of large amounts of men going after young boys(that had stopped when the Taliban was in power), and finally the greek city state of Sparta where homosexuality was greately encoraged as they thought it helped the men fight as one better(but nothing child related as far as I know).
Wow! Lots to comment about, and I'm not known for being brief! Here we go:
First, thank you for keeping this hot button issue respectful!
Next, I want to address the homosexual vs. pedophiles topic. My PERSONAL belief is there is a sliding scale of sexual deviancy. On one end, I would place masturbation, pornography, etc. As you move down, you have pre-marital sex, adultery, homosexuality, etc. But my personal belief is child abuse is on the extreme end of this scale, where it is unquestionably moved from deviancy to depravity. Without sounding "preachy" I wanted to quote our Perfect Judge of right and wrong, when describing homosexuality said it was "an abomination". Yet when describing child abuse He said it were better "for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck,...and drowned in the depth of the sea". There IS a difference.
However, I have been frustrated in the way my personal beliefs, or those who share them, have been twisted into being bigoted (refer to my Prop 8 postings). My personal beliefs do not affect how I TREAT those who don't agree with me. I will be as generous to my straight neighbors as I would with gay neighbors. Our Church was targeted in California as haters, bigots, etc because of our religious and personal beliefs. Yet, when we deliver humanitarian aid, we do not with hold generosity to those who are gay, minorities, different religions, etc. So I am very defensive, just as John, Danette, Jen and probably everyone here, when you are labeled narrow-minded or bigoted, when it is absolutely not the case.
With all of that said, I do worry that acceptance of one (listed on my scale) could lead to the acceptance of all. Just look how the teenagers have moved from engaging in premarital sex (and society and parents condoning it) to girls kissing their girl-friends just because they think the guys like it (which is now accepted). And most of them not identifying themselves as gay either! Christina, that study is shocking and disturbing, and hopefully doesn't represent any growing mentality!
Realistically I know that just as we have seen here, when my kids are ready for "THE TALK" it will have to include everything we've discussed. Homosexuality, masturbation, pedophilia, promiscuity. A much different (and scarier) talk than I got as a youth!
P.S. I did write Oprah, of course, didn't hear anything. Maybe I should "tweet" her.
Will you add a comment with the message you sent to Oprah? I'm curious as to what you said and how you said it. You are a great and fair writer so I'd love to see it.
Christina, that is just disgusting. Nothing is ever impossible, it seems that wrong continually becomes normal. While this is still deemed far from normal, you can see the work that is being done to create an idea of pedophilia as being normal. I guess it's not a matter of if it happens, it's a matter of when it happens. SOOOO SICK!
I just thought I would point out that my original comments of, "If your uncontrollable feelings of attraction are ok, doesn't that same logic say that a pedofiles uncontrollable feelings of attraction ok?" does not say that homosexuality and pedofilia are the same. It asks the whether they could claim that every one else was bigots for not accepting them. It uses my view(a possible misunderstanding of the subject) that they would use any excuse to try to get their very evil and totally depraved, worse than homosexual, view accepted and because it worked they would use the above excuse also.
John, I completely agree about the "uncontrollable feelings of attraction" being used as justification. And I think it goes back to the original post, about self control being vacant. "I was born that way" could be inaccurate justification by anyone who chooses not to control any kind of behavior.
Jen, I'll have to see if I kept the e-mail/comment. If I remember, it laid the ground work for this post. So I'm sure it is pretty similar.
I am definitely scared to talk to my children about sex topics especially in this crazy world! I find it very wrong for children to be encouraged by adults to give themselves sexual pleasure! Yikes!! Youth may experiment anyway, but if they are encouraged by adults to do these things I believe they will be very confused about what is right and wrong and may even become totally desensitized to the bad in this world. In a way I wish I could teach my kids only: no sexual behavior until marriage and then only within the bonds of marriage (between one man and one woman) and also keep them blind to what the world preaches--self gratification. But, I don't want them to be too ignorant that they become hurt or taken advantage of or shocked by what their friends present to them. I understand what John is saying and agree that when one behavior (self sexual gratification) is justified then it makes it hard not to justify something even nastier (pedophilia). I just hope that I can teach my children correct principles and let them govern themselves. Hopefully they'll know from growing up in a good, loving, religious home when something is right and when it's wrong--and choose the right! I hope Oprah presents an episode on self-control. Hey, maybe if we all write her then she will!
Wow. I haven't visited in a while and I missed a lot!
I could rant, but instead I'll just say "Who can find a virtuous woman? For her price is far above rubies."
In the LDS church, our daughters have added "virtue" to their list of values just recently. It's not coincidence.
All we can do is teach them what's right. And pray. :)
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