This may not be my most thoroughly researched and well-thought-out post. My mind is overwhelmed with thoughts, concerns and fears that will be settled once I voice them. So please indulge me.
Over the past 10 days since the election, there has been a feeling of hope, pride and excitement resonating throughout the country. People on both sides have felt it, and see great possibilities for our country. However, there has been another movement that has exploded on the west and now east coasts. It takes it's forms in protests, propoganda posters, and angry shouts from a crowd of hundreds. I have previously posted about the passing of Proposition 8 thinking that it will soon die down, and yet the back-lash has continued. Who are they assigning the blame? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or better known as the Mormons, of course! Although Mormons made up 2% of the voting population in California, it is their fault. Why not blame the Catholics? Why not blame the 70% of black voters, or 53% of Latino voters?
I find it horribly ironic that whords of people are lining the streets in California, Utah, and New York protesting for tolerance, while holding banners and posters which exploit things that Mormons hold sacred. Pleading for understanding and equality, they use inflammatory language such as 'bigots' and 'hate'. It is upsetting to see places of worship turned into targets for protest. How valid is their argument when they can not practice it themselves? Where is the tolerance for our beliefs? Where is the acceptance for us as a people? Using tyranny to promote tolerance is contradictory and impedes any healing our country desperately needs.
15 comments:
so true! But if you're looking for something good that has come from this, here it is: all the other churches that helped to pass prop 8 are standing up for the Mormons! I have read article after article by leaders of other faiths that are embracing us! They call us their "brothers". (When just months ago, when Romney was running, we were such a "strange" religion). So maybe this will open doors for us.
Interesting comment from Elton John, posted on Protect Marriage's website (of all places!)
"I don't want to be married. I'm very happy with a civil partnership. If gay people want to get married, or get together, they should have a civil partnership. The word marriage, I think, puts a lot of people off. You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships."
Why is it that the poster-boy for gays is comfortable with having the same legal rights civil partnerships have without being underneath the umbrella of marriage? Never thought I'd agree with Elton John in regards to gay-marriage! Who knew?
Here's a great video made by a professor at a Catholic University. Although he gets the name wrong, the message is a clear one of suppport for the LDS church. As Jeanine said, perhaps there is some good comming from this. The Lord works in mysterious ways.
http://singinginthereign.blogspot.com/2008/11/catholics-appalled-at-anti-mormon-slur.html
My husband and I were just discussing a strategy that President Hinkley put together in 1997 regarding the same sex issue. I linked the article below. Basically he said that we needed to be in a coalition and not out in front by ourselves.
Can you imagine if we weren't in a coilition with other churches? The attacks, in my opinion, would be far worse. Even when we stand with many, we are still singled out.
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story.aspx?content_id=4a8a2464-6cf3-45d1-a0bd-606f034bae33
Wow, Elton John and logical thinking all rolled into one. It is a good day. I hate to say it but he is so right. Why do they need the word marriage that is all it is. They could have civil ceremonies and make them fabulous occasions with flowers, ice sculptures and tiramisu. Why is the word so important? Just asking?
I am curious to see what is on Oprah tomorrow- she is having a conversation about Prop 8 on her show. Should be interesting at least-hopefully it will show both sides, usually she does a good job of that!
My friend in Seattle said there were protests at their stake conference last Sunday. Very sad.
This is seriously getting out of hand. I found out we had a bomb threat at our stake center this past week and there was also a book burning infront of a primary room at another local building.
Our protests, for the most part, we very civil. Mostly just people holding signs, no voilence. Where is the tolerence for us and our beliefs?
I have to say this whole prop. 8 deal reminds me of the pro-choice movement. (excuse my stereotyping here..) but it seems like pro-coices are all ready to support anyone who says they're pro-choice until the choice is life. In this case of prop. 8 it's all for tolerance until it's someone voiceing marriage being one man and one woman - then they can't be tolerant. Just my 2 cents.
I've been thinking a lot of this and watching a lot of interviews, etc. and it seems to me that there are two main points:
1. Religions are VERY concerned about protecting the word "marriage" but are totally OK with giving all of the civil rights granted to married couples to gays/lesbians
2. Gays/lesbians don't seem so concerned about the word "marriage", but they do want all of the rights married couples receive
I may be wrong on this, but it seems that if we can look at this issue as a civil rights issue we will get further. If religious leaders (from a variety of faiths) and leaders of the gay/lesbian community could come together, we may be able to reach some form of compromise where the definition of marriage stays the same, but under civil unions gays/lesbians could have all of the same civil rights (filing taxes together, inheritance rights, etc) of married couples then everybody would be happy. (well, at least pacified- I am sure there are extremists on both sides who would never be happy regardless of what happens).
I had thought the protest would die down, but they are doing the opposite- they are intensifying more and more on a daily basis, and I don't see it going away anytime soon. The Denver Temple was vandalized, and I know they had to shut down the LA Temple. If we are unable to meet together, we may end up losing this battle in the end- we may not, we may win- but we also might lose. That's why, in my very humble opinion, I think a compromise can be reached as stated above.
Okay here's the thing... in California gays already have the same civil rights as a married couple.
Not according the Melissa Ethridge (Who is of course, the fountain of all truth and knowledge). She claimed on Oprah that she and her girlfriend already have what's allowed in California, a domestic partnership, and that the two cannot file taxes together. Everything has to be separated, and it drives her accountant crazy.
From what I have read, there are certain details (like filing taxes) that civil unions are different than marriage, depending on the state. And granting them 'marriage' would guarauntee ALL of those rights in one big sweep. That is why they wanted it. But that is not what 'the people' want, so why not work to equalizing the rights of civil unions to be equal with marriage. Compromise can be a beautiful thing.
But in my humble opinion, the protests show the deeper motive of a SMALL MINORITY OF PEOPLE (I capitalized that to make sure I am not categorizing ALL anti-prop8 people) to destroy or invalidate religion. There have been so many attacks against all churches it is ridiculous. And devout believers are vilified. Let's start the Good Book burning, because it preaches homophobia. Why is it that people are shouting for us to 'listen to them' and yet I find that we on the pro-prop8 side are open for discussion and compromise.
And CAN'T THEY FIND BETTER SPOKESMEN FOR US!?!?? Too many times I see interviews with a well-spoken anti-8 person and a nut job who keeps quoting the Bible. Bible is great for me and my personal reading, but let's get someone who can form a reasonably, legal argument. Is anyone with me?
I was under the impression that there is so much more to Prop 8. I believe I heard it on the Dennis Prager Show. They were talking about how people would be able to bring lawsuits to churches if they didn't allow gay marraiges to be performed. I believe he was talking to a Mormon in California about it. They were saying that this would be true for the LDS church also. If this is in fact true, where is the separation of church and state in that?
I do think you are right, Jen, and the church talked a lot about how Bishops could be sued if they didn't perform marriages and BYU could be sued if they didn't have homosexual housing. I think both are maybe false, though- if somebody is excommunicated from the church for whatever reason, a bishop does not HAVE to perform the ceremony- he can refuse with no repurcussions. And, BYU doesn't take government funds, so I don't know how they can be forced to provide gay marriage housing.
I have heard a lot of gays say that they don't have the same rights as married couples (and some states still don't allow hospital visits and things like that so rights are probably granted by state), but that is why I think giving gays all the rights of a married couple without calling it marriage would solve the problem. Of course, then 2 sisters or a person and a cat could get a civil union, so that would maybe need to be clarified as well- or does it matter if 2 sisters get a civil union? It isn't marriage...
Jen, you should read my post about Prop 8, "14 words" from October. People against prop 8 say, "As California law stands right now, no religion can be sued for their beliefs" meaning: Our Bishops couldn't be sued for refusing to perform a gay marriage. BUT, unless it is on the Constitution (which it is now) LAWS CHANGE! Quickly! Take a civil suit all the way to an activist supreme court and laws would change. You can guarauntee it.
And yes, civil unions should be granted same civil rights as marriage.
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